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If I hadn't claimed myself as a fur, I would have been a trekkie. I love Star Trek. I'm *almost* one of those geeks who can give you the episode number, season and title of an episode if you describe it to me... no matter what series. My favorite series is Voyager. And I'm here to announce that I've decided to create a special operations squad within the Army Of Doom. They will be trained and deployed for a very specific, single purpose. They will be called "The Delta Hand", and they will be sent on missions to slap the piss out of alleged "Star Trek fans" who continue to claim the "Voyager" series is inferior.
Every time someone proclaims a dislike for the Voyager series, I will ask them what episodes or characters they disliked about it. And every *single* time, the response will be, "Well... I dunno. I didn't actually watch it." How in the fuck can you dislike a show you haven't SEEN?! I keep seeing reviews of Voyager that say, "Janeway didn't break any rules and was too timid." Or "Seven of nine was just a T and A character." Anyone who's watched the Voyager series will tell you that this would be like saying, "Pat Robertson's speech on the benefits of gay marriage and women empowerment was very intelligent." They obviously didn't even watch the damn thing.
The people who say such things watched the first three episodes, felt threatened with a female captain and decided that all 172 episodes sucked. That's all there is to it.
The real point here isn't Star Trek. It's about how people can eat three things from the Taco Bell menu and decide that all Mexican food is crappy. They visit the Doug Winger page and then claim that all furries draw porn and screw animals. One black person robs their house, and the entire African race is after their stereo. They get thrown in jail for the first three babies they killed, so now they're going to get caught every time.
Opinions just don't seem to be rightly earned anymore. People so much as know how to spell a word and they're a fucking expert on the subject. This is a bad thing...
And Voyager is the best thing ever.
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August 19 2005, 13:56:12 UTC 6 years ago
August 20 2005, 01:08:23 UTC 6 years ago
I liked Voyager until the final season.
Ds9 Forever. <3
August 19 2005, 13:57:46 UTC 6 years ago
I don't think it's really necessary (or possible) for someone to devote say, a whole season to a show before deciding whether they like it or dislike it. All of the inherent strengths of a show (good character development, say, or witty, fast-paced dialogue) *and* its weaknesses should be on display in every single episode. Granted, there are going to be bad episodes that don't reflect the overall quality of any given show, but someone *should* know from 3 episodes whether or not they like a show.
The problem comes in when people start to put qualitative statements on the show itself; just because you don't like a show doesn't mean it's bad. This is the trap that people fall into with "Voyager," I think. Because it *is* so different from stuff like TNG and DS9, it's not going to be the standard Trekkie's cup of tea. That's fine. But you know, as much as I hated the show from the first three or four episodes I saw, I've slowly come around to think it's surprisingly good. You just have to be a bit more open-minded; the suspension of disbelief has to stretch a different way, and if you're used to the Trek world as it's presented through the previous two incarnations, that can be a difficult thing to do.
But, when all is said and done, I think Janeway is probably the best commander of any Trek show, next to Picard. Even when she's being an unreasonable, stone-cold bitch, you just like her. That, and she has a bit more personality than Sisko. ;)
-J
August 19 2005, 14:19:42 UTC 6 years ago
I don't think Picard ever went shirtless until the First Contact movie (he was surprisingly muscular though). Sisco.. I think he had a couple of stomach rolls there. Archer is as timid as a child though.
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August 19 2005, 14:01:02 UTC 6 years ago
Needless to say Voyager is a better show. ;)
Johnny (who isn't a trekkie but likes Voyager)
August 19 2005, 17:08:15 UTC 6 years ago
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August 19 2005, 14:03:10 UTC 6 years ago
Still, I'm more a TNG guy myself, though I AM finally getting into DS9. Ah, the glory of reruns.
August 19 2005, 17:09:13 UTC 6 years ago
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August 19 2005, 14:17:24 UTC 6 years ago
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August 19 2005, 14:12:39 UTC 6 years ago
*insert masturbation joke*
August 19 2005, 14:13:05 UTC 6 years ago
August 19 2005, 14:14:27 UTC 6 years ago
Voyager kicked ass. DS9 Rawked my socks. TNG was my crack for 10 years. TOS is a classic, no matter how cheesy it was.
Is there rooom for an ogre in the Delta Hand?
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August 19 2005, 17:00:01 UTC 6 years ago
August 19 2005, 14:18:13 UTC 6 years ago
August 19 2005, 16:01:18 UTC 6 years ago
I watched several episodes, giving it a shot over a couple of seasons. The show always felt like what would happen if Sherwood Schwartz wrote a ST series. When they got to the episode where Chakote (or whatever his name was) was standing on a cliff overlooking a lava flow with this look on his face that read "HMMMMMMM!!! GOOD FOR THE SINUSES!", I wrote it off permanently.
P.S.
His lungs. They stole Neelix's LUNGS. And had to give Neelix HOLOGRAPHIC REPLACEMENTS.
*shudder*
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August 19 2005, 14:21:44 UTC 6 years ago
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August 19 2005, 14:24:49 UTC 6 years ago
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August 19 2005, 14:39:49 UTC 6 years ago
It also had the best iteration of the Obligatory Moby Dick Episode that every Star Trek series is contractually mandated to have.
However... that assesment applies strictly to seasons 4-7. I TRIED watching Voyager every so often in the first three seasons, and every time, I ran into an episode so stupid that it literally made me bang my head against the wall.
I confess that I didn't give Enterprise the same chance. I enjoyed the pilot (and I'm the only person on the PLANET who likes the theme song and opening credits), but again, the show immediately devolved into Idiot Plots.
Everyone said "give it a chance, it'll get better, Trek shows always do." At that point, I was tired of it. They'd had THIRTY SOMETHING YEARS of experience with the setting, twenty-four seasons of shows (twenty-six, if you count the Animated Trek of the '70s), ten feature films -- why in the world do they need three whole seasons to get a new Trek show right when shows like Firefly or the new Battlestar Galactica kick ass and take names right out of the gate?
But anyway. Yes. Voyager rocks.
August 19 2005, 17:15:38 UTC 6 years ago
But that's what chaps my ass! The first two seasons of TNG was filled with cheesy, unbelievable crap! But after they got in the swing of it, it turned out really good. Voyager did the same thing, but most people didn't give it the chance they gave TNG.
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August 19 2005, 14:42:41 UTC 6 years ago
I donno, I never really got into it...
August 19 2005, 14:45:00 UTC 6 years ago
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August 19 2005, 17:21:19 UTC 6 years ago
Even TIMOTHY says Bab 5 sucks complete ass! :) He likes Star Trek.
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August 19 2005, 15:02:30 UTC 6 years ago
[blows up a light saber with a photon torpedo]
August 19 2005, 15:03:06 UTC 6 years ago
1. The B&W ep where they're stuck in the Flash Gordon parody (Hilarious episode. Loved it.)
2. The Episode where Q wants a baby with Janeway (Yay, Q)
3./4. and the last two episodes of the series. It was interesting.. a bit confusing, but interesting. Plus random Barkley appearance.
I don't have any problems with Voyager, it just came at a time I had lost interest in Star Trek.
I still think my favorite is DS9 though. Sisko owned.
(Sisko):"...." *Punches Q in the face*
(Q): "You...You hit me! Picard NEVER hit me!"
August 19 2005, 15:18:11 UTC 6 years ago
Hands down one of the greatest characters ever.
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August 19 2005, 15:07:37 UTC 6 years ago
And Janeway was an alright captain, but I think having grown up with Picard leading the way it was just a change that I didn't particularly care for.
However, that said, Voyager had a much better theme.
And it was good.
However, it is much suck when people rate the whole on the basis of the few.
-Draco
August 19 2005, 15:22:11 UTC 6 years ago
I'm sorry, but you expect me to believe that a bunch of aliens who can take other alien's organs, and actually make them work inside their own bodies, but somehow their biotech is not up to snuff enough to just cure the disease that makes them need to do it in the first place??? Or not even just plain organ cloneing on their own, or something?? Nigga, please!
It seems to me that Voyager (and all star trek series in general) sometimes decide that they have this "really great" plot idea, ("Hey, I know! Let's have a race of aliens that go around stealing other aliens organs! That'd be neat, huh?"), and then they care not one whit for any amount of logic or plausibility they have to trample over in order to get there.
So okay fine, yeah... it was just one episode. But, I just could not make myself go back, after that.
P.S. Of course, Babylon 5 does have the absolutely godawful fugly "T.K.O." episode, and that's still the greatest sci-fi series ever made :-P
P.P.S though, the new Battlestar Galactica is giving it a serious run for it's money. ^.^
August 19 2005, 17:25:49 UTC 6 years ago
Aah yes. The *fourth* episode in the entire series. Even TNG had two whole seasons of suck before it got good.
I wouldn't waste the water to flush Bab 5 down my toilet. The most cheesy, unbelievable crap ever concieved.
BUT... I agree with the new Battlestar! That show is like crack!
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August 19 2005, 15:22:47 UTC 6 years ago
constucting informed view points sadly appears to be a dying art,...
and Voyager was great! though they could have done without the final series, and Janeway could easily have been a clone of my old boarding school house mistress (which is rather scary), but appart from all that it was great! :D
August 19 2005, 15:34:10 UTC 6 years ago
Babylon 5.
Yes, I know. Babylon 5 isn't related to Star Trek at all. However, it completely changed the face of Science Fiction on television. We went from Star Trek (and even The Next Generation) 40 minute setup, rise, fall - a Rinse, Lather, Repeat format to long story arcs where we have a definate plot intricies.
Voyager was a throw back to the alien of the week in a new headgear. It had characters who, while they evolved, seemed to stagnate and then leap forward. The thing that comes to mind was the potentially useful Maquis and Starfleet crew situation. In the begining, there were tensions. Then the 'mutiny' episode. Then nothing. For seasons we go without seeing any conflict. Yes, we have the 'Tom is a dick to Chackoty' and find out its all a plot to fool the Cardassian chick. Boo-hoo.
Compare this to Deep Space Nine, where we actually have something obtainable. We have the Dominion War. We have those goings on. It stood much stronger against the backdrop of Babylon 5's arcs. Yes, it doesn't have the philosophical backings, but its enough to keep its head above water.
And now Babylon 5! The Vorlons! The Shadows! EarthForce and the civil war! Byron! PsiCops and Mundanes! G'Kar! Londo Mollari! The themes of truth, of love, of hatred, of acceptance. Spans decades of thought. We had truthly intelligent Science Ficiton television. We had a series that wasn't simple. Characters that worked well.
We had an excellent set up for good arcs. A divided crew. A potentially harmful situation with supplies. We had loads of opportunites...
Wasted for 40 minute episodes with Alien of The Week, Big Play of the Month and Destrution of anything.
That, IMO, is why Voyager failed. Babylon 5 and the damn 5 year arc. I blame JMS almost as much as I blame Berman and Braga.
August 19 2005, 16:01:22 UTC 6 years ago
August 19 2005, 15:40:30 UTC 6 years ago
He's a virgin.
O.o ???
-Kryphos
August 19 2005, 15:51:11 UTC 6 years ago
August 19 2005, 15:52:48 UTC 6 years ago
Where Voyager is all fucked up at the end and Janeway is covered with scars and shit? For some reason they're fighting this "time ship" and blowing away entire planets?
That was when i was hooked.
August 19 2005, 15:56:22 UTC 6 years ago
6 years ago
August 19 2005, 16:08:40 UTC 6 years ago
Janeaway? Be serious, who on earth wants Margaret Thatcher as a space captain? Everyone wanted to get into Servalan's pants instead. A tyrannical, dominatrix, cosmic Rocky Horror Show space vamp - what more could you ask for in the dictator of the corrupt Terran Federation?
Tarrant was pretty hot too for those of you who were that way inclined. :)
August 19 2005, 16:18:44 UTC 6 years ago
Overall it just didn't match up to a series that gave us The Inner Light, Chain of Command, Frame of Mind and others.
My big pet peeve with the series is how they constantly have to invent new Ultimate Enemies to beat, because they've beaten the old ones too many times already. The Borg were always overwhelmingly more powerful than the Federation- the only time they were harmless was when they were either isolated or insane. But Voyager? Oh, they beat/outwit them a few good dozen times, including in the final episode.
So they go and invent a new enemy, a Bigger Baddie from Chaotic space that even the Borg fear! Oh gosh, we destroyed them also. Hrm.
Let's make an enemy that hunts THAT enemy! Yay! They're so strong and powerful and... bah. We kicked their asses also.
Also, why do they always remove all Borg upgrades from Voyager when they've won the battle? Don't they like their new upgraded ship?
And just how many new engine types have they tried to use? And then abandoned completely because they don't get them home in the span of that one episode, improvements or repairs that'd work around that be damned?
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