2 ([info]2_gryphon) wrote,
@ 2009-04-28 03:58:00
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Who are you?
"Dear 2. If my parents ever found out I was gay/furry, they would kick me into the streets with no place to go, take away all I have, brand me with hot irons, beat me with chainsaws, discontinue my nipples and disown me. What would be the best way to go about telling them I'm gay/furry?"

You would probably be amazed at how many times I hear this question or similar variants. The first few thousand times, my immediate reaction was to pound my face into the desk until I passed out, and after regaining consciousness, clawing my way to the keyboard to type with a trembling, bloody hand, "THEN DON'T TELL THEM, YOU TARD!"... just before I'd collapse onto the floor, dead.

After a few years of this, I started to become extremely curious why so many people would be willing to sacrifice their families, friends, homes, nipples and everything they have for a meager moment they can stand a sliver of their private business in the spotlight in front of everyone who cares for them and, whom they know will reject them for doing such a thing. So, one day, just when I was about to lose consciousness from the blunt trauma to my face, I stopped for a moment and asked... "Why? Why do you so desperately need these people to know this specific piece of private information about you?"

I asked the next person and the next the same question. And I discovered something interesting. Without fail, the answer was always, "Because I want them to know who I truly am."

At first, this puzzled me. Then, when I became sober, it still puzzled me. So I took a dump. I always think better when I'm taking a dump.

What exactly makes up a person? A person is made up of a million different elements. What his favorite color is, how well he can climb a tree, what his talents are, where his aspirations direct him, how much money he's willing to pay to take a shit at a coin operated toilet. All these elements come together to form a person.

But what causes a person to elect a single one of these elements to be "who I really am"? What, out of the million different things that culminate into "you" do you choose to identify yourself with? Which tiny piece of you do you pick to stamp onto your forehead for the purpose of labeling yourself?

Is it random? I don't think so. People don't generally stick their hand into the proverbial Power Ball tank of personality and pull out the element by which they will forever title themselves.

How then, is this element chosen? By what criteria do we select the one millionth of ourselves to present to the world when they ask, "Who are you?" But even more perplexing -- why would anyone choose the preference of the gender they'd rather rub their sexual organs against to do this job?

Picture a somber scene. A troubled and nervous teenager, anxiously entwining his fingers sits in a chair in front of his father. His posture is straight and defiant. His chin is gritted in solid determination. He says, "Dad, I have to tell you something."

The father raises an eyebrow and acknowledges with a gruff, "Uh huh?"

The teen takes a deep breath, pauses for a moment and then, with a tear streaking down his cheek, his voice crackles, "I like corn."

It's a little silly, isn't it? No one would consider an enjoyment of corn to be "who I truly am." But for a moment, let's what-if.

What if, in this world, no one thought for a moment about a person being gay? What if it was a normal or natural as anything else. It had no social repercussions, no one talked about it or even really thought about it. If you told someone you were gay, you got a reaction much like if you said you think grass is itchy.

However, in this same world, corn is taboo. It's used to point out undesirable people. Its enjoyment is employed as an insult and in questioning a person's moral values. "I don't trust you, corn eater!" Though there is a small community of people who insist, and rightly so, that there is simply no reason to judge people based on their enjoyment of corn, this community is seen as dangerous, immoral and threatening. Business owners pretend to support them for the sake of putting on an anti-hate facade.

Would this conversation be so strange then? Would being a person who enjoys the taste of corn become "who I truly am" in this case?

I believe that the reason so many people have decided that "who I truly am" is gay or furry is because people pick the most controversial elements of their personality to present to the world. People don't want to define themselves by something that no one gives a crap about. They want who they believe themselves to be to get a reaction. To get attention and notice. Even if the scale of the element they choose is no bigger than any other element. Even if it would otherwise be seen as personal, private business. Whether it will delight people or piss them off, we choose to define ourselves by that which people will have the biggest reaction toward. How many African Americans define themselves as being black? Now, how many caucasians define themselves as being white? Being black has a history of causing a much bigger reaction than being white.

My advice to the teen who has decided that he simply must tell his loved ones "who I truly am", in spite of the hell they'll turn his life into... Why don't you sit for awhile and think about just who you truly are. Perhaps being a person with a warm home, parents and friends is more of who you are than just "a gay person".


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[info]draggyfrrydragn
2009-04-28 08:08 am UTC (link)
Damnit, 2! Why must you fill my already-tired brain with even more to think about just as I'm retreating to the wonderful comfort of my bed?! Now I'll wake up in 3 hours after having a dream involving THIS journal! And when I do, I'm going to e-mail you and say "Hey! I had a dream involving your last LJ journal! Just thought you'd like to know!"


.....



....Yeah, I'm gonna go to bed now. Still, I love when you do journals like this, really I do. :)

(Reply to this)


[info]hydra_velsen
2009-04-28 08:25 am UTC (link)
A lot of parents know, but would rather the issue never come up. Easier to try to forget than totally change one's perception of their offspring.

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[info]hesterbyrde
2009-04-28 04:25 pm UTC (link)
That sounds like my parents when it comes to my religion! They just ignore the fact that I'm an atheist to death since I'm an adult and they can't do anything about it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]runemist34
2009-04-28 08:29 am UTC (link)
Honestly, I believe that people identify the things that they choose to represent "them" when people ask "Who are you?" by how often they use it (be it a skill or an interest) or how closely it comes to some of the more "basic" instincts or emotions we have. Sex is something that every person can relate to, and we have a huge amount of emotions and social rituals and stigmas around it. Thus, a person being gay is a bigger deal than what we eat or how we like our grass because it tends to touch a lot of subjects in our lives. Going to the bar: If you're in the closet, pick a supposedly pretty girl and try to flirt with her, and trick your friends. If you're free with your gay-ness, then pick a hot guy and go to it. I've heard some people say that guys (and I think it's true for girls, too) think about sex every six seconds. Thus, this is something that is very close to the centerpoint to our lives. Also, for some of us, having a mate and children is central to how "valuable" we are. Silly, I realize, but there it is. I know lots of women who want kids, regardless of their financial status or age, because they feel that ticking clock and know that they won't be able to have babies forever.
As for furryness, I think that's a bit more obscure, but it does make sense to me. It's a social label, like being a "goth" or a "nerd." Often people place a huge importance on social labels because it also shows social and self worth for some groups, and will also be an opening (or closing) of some doors as to who you can have as friends, who will accept you. The people close to you are the most important in your life, and you'd like them to know all about you and accept you, so that they understand your behaviors. Some of us even place our own self worth on their acceptance: if we aren't accepted by our parents, spouses, and friends, we are worthless.
Anyways, just how I see these things. I've struggled a lot with labels and "being myself," and I've been one of those people who thought she was worthless because people didn't like her. It's not a great road, but I understand it.
I agree with you at the end, though. I don't think of people as "gay" and "straight," it's not really any of my business, and I'm happy with what I have anyways. A gay person is the same person they were before they told me they were gay. :)

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[info]2_gryphon
2009-04-28 09:04 am UTC (link)
In that case, why don't straight people have a bigger sense of identity from being straight? It's sexual. There are emotions involved. But if you ask a straight guy who he is, he'll generally say, "I'm a plummer" or something.

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(no subject) - [info]dante_fox, 2009-04-28 11:19 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]akirashima, 2009-04-28 11:29 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]akirashima, 2009-04-28 11:41 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]coyotewolfen, 2009-04-28 12:01 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]hesterbyrde, 2009-04-28 04:30 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kittle_uk, 2009-04-28 05:06 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]coyotewolfen, 2009-04-28 11:29 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]emirasan, 2009-04-28 02:47 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]coyotewolfen, 2009-04-28 04:32 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]emirasan, 2009-04-28 04:44 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]jakkal
2009-04-28 08:35 am UTC (link)
I think some people might think being rejected is sometimes better than the constant fear/worry of being rejected. I think in some way, they want to get that weight off their back.

I just wish people would stop telling me about their personal kinks like it's common knowledge or something. :P

(Reply to this)


[info]equusfur
2009-04-28 08:40 am UTC (link)
Many times I have wondered if it is even selfish to do such. I'm torn to be honest. Tell family and put them under more stress than they deserve? For that small thing?

Or just leave it unspoken?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]coyotewolfen
2009-04-28 12:30 pm UTC (link)
Personal veneration through seocial veneration. MOre than wanting those we can about to know, we want them to understand and acceph, translating into an understanding and accepting of us. But, yes, it is selfish. It demands the individual make a choice and take a position on something that has nothing to do with them, only you. What you do is not who you are.

If you feel a desire to share your personal life with others, try to consider the who and how on an individual basis. The more open-minded are not necessarily more trustworthy, and some would rather be contented in the feeling that you are happy living your life your way rather than knowing what those ways are. Make it as much of a non-issue as possible and I feel that it will gain more acceptance from others; those who want to know more will come forward at a time and in a way when they are ready.

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[info]tsumi_moogle
2009-04-28 08:53 am UTC (link)
I think they prefer to choose those parts of themselves as, even though that point is only a millionth, it's one of the biggest one millionth. It might not be because any point is particularly controversial, because most anything can and will be in certain limelights.

It might also be hope, that causes them to admit themselves to their parents/friends. Even though they think they'll be disowned, perhaps a part of them hopes it will not be the case, and they'll have someone close by to talk to about those points for not having had anyone to before.

(Reply to this)

heh sometimes they know you better than you think
[info]ketrava
2009-04-28 09:02 am UTC (link)
Knew I was furry and gay throughout highschool. Never told the parents and just kept it quiet except to a few close friends. Upon driving to college and being sure that if they were not ok with it My life and livelyhood wouldn't be effected I called them to tell them I was gay.

Mom's response "well as long as you use a condom whatever makes you happy"
Dad's response "your step mom and I kinda figured. You only ever dated one girl in high school and only took her out once. We told you mom and she figured the same thing. We kinda wondered if you were ever going to tell us."

My response " o.0!!!11!1! WHAT ?? REALLY ??? Thats it?? I have been so worried about this for four years and you guys already knew!!!!!
/facepalm

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[info]hooved_goddess
2009-04-28 09:10 am UTC (link)
i think its not so much about "sexual" preference, as "romantic", it would be one thing if one was just out screwing around. then there'd be no need to tell. what does one do when they find their life mate and want to get married (in whatever context). if your mate wanted to seek your family's approval, its hard not to "come out" then. or boy, whoo hoo are they gonna be surprised when they get to the wedding rehearsal without a heads up.

apologies for waxing philosophical but im half asleep

(Reply to this)


[info]kensan_oni
2009-04-28 09:17 am UTC (link)
.... I personally think it's to get your parents off your case.

Let's face it, there are two pressures happening here. One is External (My Boyfriend doesn't want to hide that we love each other while around the constant family OR I want my grandma to get off my back about making babies now), and the Internal Pressure... which I can't define right now, but I know there is one.... but I think the external one is a very important consideration.

If you are going to fall in love with someone and make it your life goal to be with that someone, then you better well let people know about it. The other path just leads to pain, really. So it is important to tell people.

Not that I haven't understood your stance (And honestly, I agree with it to a point), but I also understand the desire not to hide what you are doing from those that you want to trust you. Still, for a person not to have long term plans and to do this 'just because' is a stupid impulsive move, really, and there I think we agree.

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[info]wildbilltx
2009-04-28 09:18 am UTC (link)
There's something you said in a podcast or show a long long time ago that's still true: "Nobody has to know you're a Furry".

Yet there's so much talk and pressure about coming out in the furry and gay communities that people who are new to it think they have to do it to be accepted.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]2_gryphon
2009-04-28 06:13 pm UTC (link)
Well, that's because in the gay and furry communities, people who don't immediately make these things known openly to the world are accused of being ashamed of them, hiding them or of not having pride in who they are.

So I suppose that since I don't shake someone's hand and say, "Hello! I'm 2. And I think the smell of lilacs is wonderful," that means I'm ashamed of the fact that I like lilacs and am hiding it.

I never understood the how failing to make it publicly known that you're gay means you're trying to hide it, but failing to make in publicly known that you own a ferret named "Sockface" means nothing. After all, a person cannot possibly reveal every detail about themselves to the world. Why is there shame assumed with these specific elements?

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(no subject) - [info]bucktowntiger, 2009-05-03 09:22 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]toumal
2009-04-28 09:41 am UTC (link)
Signed. And this is coming from someone who does not just nod and agree with everything you say, quite the contrary. But you're absolutely right here IMO.

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[info]teaselbone
2009-04-28 09:42 am UTC (link)
I always think better when I'm taking a dump.

Truth

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[info]luna_manar
2009-04-28 10:06 am UTC (link)
2, I agree with you. However...

...The reason it's a big deal to tell your parents, though, is that one day, you are going to find someone you don't just want to bone--you want to spend the rest of your life with them. And when you find that person, it'll be a lot harder to explain it to your parents than if you told them, ahead of time, that you're gay. And at that point, it IS more important than an affinity for corn; it's the person you do or will one day love that you want them to accept. Not just your sexual preference.

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[info]amberinside
2009-04-28 10:09 am UTC (link)
This.

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(no subject) - [info]mbluewolf, 2009-04-28 02:50 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]2_gryphon, 2009-04-28 06:32 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]luna_manar, 2009-04-28 08:46 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]riderj, 2009-04-30 07:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]bucktowntiger, 2009-05-03 09:24 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]alexeagle
2009-04-28 10:18 am UTC (link)
I am more the way [info]kensan_oni thinks. It's not that my entire definition of myself crumbles and turns to dust when I pretend to be straight... But somehow you always act and you hide it and it's telling people a lie. A big fat lie.

I know we lie all the time, but that is a unneccessary lie in my opinion as it leads to pain and discomfort. I could only bear it to resist against my parents to bug me with questions about their grandchildren and my non-existing girlfriend for two years. Those are expectations from them I won't fulfill. They hope and expect.

So you can do two things:

1) Stay silent about it and hope they die without knowing that you never were going to get a girl.

2) Tell the truth. That does hurt at first and crush their hopes, but it's IMO better than the neverending hope that the little Areku gets a girl in the end afterall.

So I decided to tell them. Things could been better how we dealt with it, but I feel a lot better not to be in the closet anymore and freely live what I am.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]solanth
2009-04-28 08:11 pm UTC (link)
You seem to be inventing a rather silly dichotomy here. If you're not telling everyone you're gay, you're lying and pretending to be straight? This is what we call bullshit.

It's completely sensible to only deal with it when it becomes a real issue, rather than worrying yourself sick about making it an issue before it becomes one.

If someone asks me if I'm gay, I tell them the honest answer. Most people don't ask, and this is fine.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ralmiska
2009-04-28 10:18 am UTC (link)
It depends how big a part of your life furry is. I'm by no means a furry lifestyler, in fact I find that entire concept to be teetering on laughable. Despite that, my closest friends are all furs, and my life would be completely different were I not one of them.

With that in mind however, when I get asked 'who are you going to visit?' my response will invariably be something to the effect of 'friends,' and I see no reason to point out that I, nor the people that I associate with are furries.
All in all though, most of the furries I spend time with are pretty normal people, so I don't mind introducing my friends and family to them, if they happen to meet through chance. In fact, I'm more embarrassed about the local furries finding out about the sort of family I come from. :p

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[info]kandrel
2009-04-28 10:25 am UTC (link)
I've pondered on this before, and I came to a conclusion that I'd say is parallel to yours, but has (I think) a few significant differences.

The reason that being "gay" or "furry" or "corn eater" has become such a defining characteristic for people is that it's a quality about them that is significantly different than the normal. Your average person is taught (now) from a young age that they are "unique" and "special", but once they start to reach teen and adulthood, they realize that they're actually very much like just about everyone else around them.

In my opinion, because of that realization, many people latch on to the things they are that sets them apart from the crowd as their last lifeline to being special. How many groups that you're *NOT* a part of can you look at from the outside and apply this to? What about black people that focus on their "blackness" rather than who they are as a person? Jewish people? Color-blind people?

I've broached this topic with my grandparents (who are thankfully alive and coherent.) This prevalence of identity based on your "minority status" is much more pronounced now than it's been any time in their memory. It's this fox's humble opinion that we can link this to the institutionalized need for individuals to be "different" and "special."

Am I on to something here, or am I just spouting?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]coyotewolfen
2009-04-28 02:18 pm UTC (link)
I think you're onto something here. At no other time in history have we not only allowed

Everyone must earn the right to be considered important to their community or society in general, something one does not learn until they are well into their teens. The intelligent ones do, the weaker but clever ones do only what is needed and learn how to get passed up the line of a system where nobody wants to take responsibility for failure.

Personally, I think its one thing to step up and say "this is simpthing that is important to me" but another to make it ones cause and say "its time you made a choice to accept this thing as being right and OK for anyone." Forcing people to make choices on topics that have nothing to do with them make them uncomfortable and less accepting as a reaction. Let everyone see you living your life and being happy, making your personal thing a non-issue and it will become easier to win people over. But there's no power to be gained by special interest groups by taking this route and so it would be upto the people that group represents to take that power away from them.

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(no subject) - [info]kandrel, 2009-04-28 03:25 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]coyotewolfen, 2009-04-28 04:45 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]kittle_uk
2009-04-28 10:52 am UTC (link)
Speaking as a transsexual, coming out was something I really had to do. Pretending to be someone I wasn't was doing really bad stuff to my head and I really wasn't nice to be around. I needed to talk to my parents about it because they needed to understand where I was planning to go with my life before the first time they saw me with boobs. I knew they weren't going to be overjoyed about it, and they weren't. My Dad's still being a dick and we've not spoken more than a couple of sentences in about three years, but my Mum's still talking to me and she's giving funds to me for laser facial hair removal, which is the sort of support that really speaks to me. :p My brother was totally cool and supportive about it and I think it's actually strengthened our relationship because there's a bond of trust there and we know we can talk to each other about anything.

I know being trans is an odd case because it's one of the few areas where, unless you're lucky enough to pass, just walking down the street on an average day will out you. But for things like your sexuality, hiding who you're attracted to can have a huge bearing on your social interactions. You get your family quizzing you about when you're going to settle down with a nice guy/girl and start giving them grandchildren/great grandchildren or whatever. And in work and school situations you have people talking about their relationships and quizzing you about yours and that can be equally stressful if you have to hide information about your life that all teh straight people can talk about without others batting an eyelid. At least if you come out you'll hopefully be able to get them to stfu about that stuff, if not be able to talk openly and honestly about what's going on in your life.

As for coming out as furry, that one I don't get so much because it doesn't affect your life and social interactions anywhere near as much, at least in my experience.

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[info]coyotewolfen
2009-04-28 02:29 pm UTC (link)
As I see it, if you've already come out as trans or gay, you've already gone through the shock and awe, so what's furry in all that? Coming out as furry with none of that, while not being as dramatic or intense, is still telling other people more about your personal life and interests, that may ask more questions than answers.

I would say that TG is as applicable as furry in this discussion as while the topic *may* include sexuality, it doesn't have to. Coming out as homosexual is different in this discussion as doing so primarily about sexuality.

I feel that if the people you care about see that you are happy and you can express how the things you do and the way you are becoming makes you feel, than the particulars should be less important and they may not even need to be brought up. Making ones personal thing as much of a nonissue to others as possible I feel is the big secret the special interest groups don't want the people they represent to know.

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(no subject) - [info]kittle_uk, 2009-04-28 04:01 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]coyotewolfen, 2009-04-28 04:54 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]2_gryphon, 2009-04-28 06:41 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kittle_uk, 2009-04-28 07:29 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kittle_uk, 2009-04-28 09:04 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]eaglem16
2009-04-28 11:48 am UTC (link)
I think a gay plumber would also say "I'm a plumber" too when asked who he is. But the moment that talks of one another's family comes up, that same gay person can't reveal that part of his life to anyone for fear of the social stigma. When a straight person talks about his family life (wife and two kids), the sex is somehow inconsequential (or at least understood); however, when a guy talks about having a boyfriend, somehow sex is the first thing that comes into mind. "Oh he's one of those sodomites. God I wish these people would keep their personal life out of these discussions." Well what the fuck? He just talked about having a boyfriend when the subject matter was relevant. Nobody mentioned sex, and if that's how it was understood, then this imbicile need to take a course on interpersonal communication, and perhaps a class on logic and critical thinking.

The same thing is true when a person wants to come out, I think. Who a person loves or could potentially love defines a person more than the average corn on a cob. It's got littler to do with telling people you care about that you like long hot throbbing shafts shoved up your rectum, and more about who will make you happy by living with them for a large portion of your life, and that's pretty significant. It should be along the lines of "we've decided to get married."

Of course, above I'm talking about adult relationships which have evolved passed the very emotionally tumultuous high-school years. I pretty much agree that teenagers who are still wholly dependent on their parents for food and shelter should keep it to themselves. Though I definitely find it stupid how Brad can come jovially home with Lizzy and show her off to his parents in highschool, but can't do the same with David without their parents thinking about the disgusting kinky anal bathroom sex the two will probably have in the middle of their local synagogue.

I'm still happy not being out to my family, but as time goes on I think I'll be less happy knowing that my older brother is living happily and openly with his wife and kids, while I am being forced to shelter my significant other because we happen to be the same gender. It is a part of me, and at the very least, the people who brought me up and care for me otherwise should know that.

*ramble ramble ramble*
It's 6AM, I should be in bed.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]coyotewolfen
2009-04-28 03:02 pm UTC (link)
To the straight male, if you don't have a female partner and thus either children or the potential for children, you don't have a "family" in the same sense you to. Hell, such things don't really even require that the two people love eachother, just that they're willing enough to stay together to raise their shared offspring. I'd even go so far as to say that theres an assumption that if you had children, that they're of your seed, too. There is none of that in a male-male relationship and the little known/want to know by those who are't so inclined is the sweaty butt-stuffing they'd prefer only to think about when doing so to their wife or mistress. Now, if the conversation were about said butt-stuffing instead of family, as males are big on bonding, John Familyman might not feel as uncomfortable discussing the subject even if its another man experiencing your technique.

Logic? Critical thinking? Interpersonal skills? If they don't already have them by the time they leave highschool, they don't want them and aren't going to spend any free time on acquiring them. For those you feel lacking in these departments, the best I think you can do from your end is to make your homosexuality more about your life and feelings and less about what you do and who you're doing it to. Some will be unable to help themselves from thinking about the latter.

As far as you comingout to you family: until you have something more to tell them like "I'm engaged" or "we're getting a house" or something, maybe just tell them that "its in progress and I'll tell you more about it when things are more certain" if they ask. They'll focus on the fact that you're bedding down with another man if that's all you have to tell them, but if you can show them that you are happy and successful in your partnership, than it might make it easier to absorb.

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[info]mangusu
2009-04-28 12:23 pm UTC (link)
Brilliant Philosophy.
I never came out to my parents.
They asked me, and they were pretty fine with it. They just kind of wanted to know if they should make any investments towards grandchildren or weddings or something.
Basically in this case, what they don't know wont hurt them.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]raspberryroo
2009-04-28 09:13 pm UTC (link)
I totally agree with you 2.

I also have not come out to my parents. Mainly because I don't exactly picture them running around popping cigars in everyone's mouth cheering.

I like to think my parents KNOW me. They know what I like, my goals, my dreams, and my hobbies. Like you said, who I date is only a part of me but it doesn't define me.

On the same note - I really hate when people ask your sexual preference like it is asking your name.

"Hi! I'm Ras - what's your name?"
"I'm MURRPURRS, are you gay?"

Like - HELLO - there is more to a person that what kind of butt sex they enjoy :P

Edited at 2009-04-28 09:14 pm UTC

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[info]raiden_kitsune
2009-04-28 12:40 pm UTC (link)
I can't believe this isn't being brought up in a ton of posts, because to me it seems like the glaringly obvious answer. It's simply a matter of how much a part of our lives these parts of us are. To say being furry is "a millionth" of who I am...it's a little ridiculous if you know me. One of a million points, perhaps, but it is a massive part of who I am. Why? Because a fairly good chunk of my time is spent on things relating to being a furry. Being I spend a huge amount of time with others that I met through a shared interest in the fandom, often doing things related to the fandom. Because my furry side expresses much more of my personality than any other one "detail" in my life. Because people I've met, things I've done, places I've been due to my involvement in the furry fandom have had a huge impact on my life and shaped large parts of myself. Because the people I love most in my life right now, I never would have met if I hadn't been interested in all things furry.

More than any other single event in my life, who I am and what I've done, what I want to do, who I want to do it with...all revolves back to that one moment when I was a few years old and my mother brought home the soundtrack to Cats, and started it all.

I'm sure it's the same for most people that consider being gay to be a huge part of themselves. It seems to be for most of my gay friends; they spend most of their time with other members of the gay community, much of their social lives revolve around a gay club they love(I mean my friends in particular here, not all gay people), most of them are into a lot of things often considered to be typically gay interests (Broadway, etc). They consider being gay to be "who they really are" because it's shaped much of their lives.

Being straight isn't really a community because it's never needed to be. Being straight is simply being part of the majority, so there's nothing to draw people together, there are rarely things considered to be common shared interests for straight people, etc. There aren't really many clubs that would label themselves as "straight" clubs (nor would they likely get away with it if they tried in most places). There's no common thread hooking together straight people; whereas a lot of gay people I know seem to immediately consider another gay person to be someone who has something in common with themselves, perhaps even if only because of the shared adversities they still deal with in society, but hopefully also for more positive reasons.

If you want to stick with the rather silly example you gave...Generally, people don't live their lives around corn. Most don't go to corn conventions, or easily make friends with someone because of a shared interest in corn. They don't look at a TV show, or video game, or book, and see that it involved corn, and have an immediate interest in it. Liking corn doesn't express any part of your personality. No one that I know of makes a living as a comic standing up in front of other corn eaters, or produces a corn themed podcast.

It just...doesn't seem all that complicated to me.

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[info]lunabird
2009-04-28 01:29 pm UTC (link)
I don't know if I can agree with you. I have many aspects in my life that I've let people know about simply because it's unavoidable. For example, I'm an atheist. Being an atheist is admitting to being in one of the most controversial groups in America. But, unless I'm with a secular humanist group at the time, doing relevant activism, or the topic of religion comes up in a conversation I don't feel the need to announce it to people. For me, being a secular humanist, skeptic, and atheist is a massive part of my life as I choose to involve myself in the community surrounding that.

But I don't feel a need to tell everyone this. I'm not 'closeted' -- if someone asks I'm gonna tell them the truth, but, I don't feel the need to bring it up out of context. Being an atheist is not something I hide, or something I trumpet. It's just something I am.

Now, religion and one's alignment in regards to it are something that is fairly likely to come up in a conversation with friends. It's very likely to be something that comes up in a conversation with parents. It's definitely something you want to know about a significant other/boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse simply because when it comes to that level of closeness it's best to find someone with compatible views. So most of my friends (I think) know, my parents know. But, it's not something I demand people accept of me. My friends all like me as I am, and, outside of the atheism my parents like me as I am. My spouse is an atheist too.

Now, let's take the issue of my bi-sexuality. 99 times out of 100 I'm attracted to men over women, but, that last 1 time there'll just be some girl who is smokin'. I always told myself that I'd try and give everyone a fair chance, and if there was some girl who would just be the perfect life partner for me I wouldn't reject her on the basis of what body that person was stuck in.

If I had ended up with a woman I would have told my parents, as a mate/spouse is a huge part of your life. For realizes.

But I didn't. I married a dude. He's awesome. I love him.

And thus, my parents don't know.

Why not? I'm clearly not closeted about my sexuality. I'm pretty damn cool with it. It's because, just like atheism, unless the topic of my sexuality comes up I'm not going to discuss it.

And outside of looking for a mate, it usually doesn't. My best friend of 6 years, who is an asexual activist for LGBT rights, only found out a few months ago when it casually came up in the conversation. She was flabbergasted for a moment, not mad, but, simply in shock because she had not had a clue. Then we both laughed over it.

I don't know which of my friends know that I'm occasionally attracted to women. My parents don't know. My spouse does know, and is completely cool with it.

Why is there a difference between this an the atheism with who knows? Because one is a religious belief, which is a fairly public thing for society as a whole, and the other is a sexual preference -- something that has to do with what I do in bed -- which on the whole is something that is generally kept private. I don't feel the need to announce to the world how I and my husband like to do it. I don't see why a culture needs to build up over the way you screw. Being gay -- all of the culture and stereotypes aside -- is ultimately about two things: Who you want to take as a mate, and what gender you like to boink.

If you're a teenager, it's likely gonna be a few years before you have a mate. I can see coming out to your parents then, because, well, a spouse is an overwhelmingly huge thing. Your parents need to know at that point, simply because that person is family.

But, if it simply comes down to the sexual, and sexual attraction aspect of it... Why do your parents need to know what your sexual preference is? Would you tell them if you liked to be tied up? Would you have this conversation with your mother? "Mom, I think it's really hot when people fist each other. I dream about it regularly, watch a ton of porn on it, and research the best methods to do it. You're cool with that, right?"

I understand that being gay is an overwhelming part of one's sexual identity, but, ultimately, outside of taking a spouse, why do your parents need to know what gender you want to have sex with?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]raiden_kitsune, 2009-04-28 02:58 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]coyotewolfen, 2009-04-28 03:37 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]2_gryphon, 2009-04-28 06:50 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]jellymuffins
2009-04-28 01:26 pm UTC (link)
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Preach it, Brother 2! It may be too late at night and too cold outside for me to be making sane comments, but in my opinion verbalising thoughts is always better than head-trauma... unless you are giving some to another person... scratch that, small child, who is being really annoying.
Keep up the incredible work.

Regards,
JellyMuffins the Bunny
-"Viva la 2 Sense!"

(Reply to this)


[info]sanityangel
2009-04-28 01:49 pm UTC (link)
For the furry bit, bah. My mom doesn't need to know. It's my kink. I have some anthro art openly hung in my livingroom and my mom thinks it's "Cute" (Of course it's the clean stuff...and it is cutesy). But there's a major generation gap between me and the rest of my family, so talking to them isn't always easy. My sister is 18 year older then me and got kicked out by my father becuase she liked girls. But she knew my dad enough to have her stuff packed and already found a new place before she told my parents. He banned her from seeing me because she'd "Infect" his baby. But she said it was the best thing she ever did becuase she was tired of living a lie and pretending to go on dates jut to get my dad off her back about not having a man in her life.

My mom found out I was bi on accident. I didn't want to tell her, cuase I saw the explosion with my sister, and while my mom was still close to her, it seemed like a sore subject and I'd heard my mom say the phrase 'Sick fucking fags"more times then I cared to. She found out, and just shrugged and told me she didn't care who I slept with as long as I didn't do anything in front of her. Straight or gay, she doens't care as long as she didn't see anything more then holding hands.

Sometimes I think it's just a matter of personal happiness. Some people can't live in closests. Unlike most intrests, sexuality is normally a big part of people's lives, and if they love someone enough to want to spend thier lives together, it gets harder and harder to keep the closet doors closed.

I currently live in a college town that had an openly gay mayor. Saying you're gay around here doesn't affect many people. (We still have a few that say everything makes you go to hell...but we ignore them)

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[info]aethwolf
2009-04-28 01:50 pm UTC (link)
I came out to my family as gay because it was easier to tell them that I was going to go spend a weekend with my boyfriend than to lie to them.

I like keeping my family involved in my life, which includes who I'm dating. They aren't getting and details about my sex life, but they do get to know that I'm currently in a relationship with a sweet guy by the name of Nick.

Given my hopes of getting married one day, I find it impossible to not come out eventually. I'd want the family there, and I'd rather not just drop that shocker in their laps during the ceremony.

Edit to include more thoughts:
I think that, for some furs, coming out as furry is sort of a practice coming out for when they eventually need/want to come out as something other than straight and cisgendered.

Edited at 2009-04-28 05:42 pm UTC

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[info]foxen_alopex
2009-04-28 02:05 pm UTC (link)
Interesting, and a sentiment that I used to echo, but my perspective on the "furry is who I truly am" statement has changed quite a bit over the last year. Previously I'd thought it was as you stated, someone inaccurately describing the be all and end all of how they perceived themselves. A convenient way to pigeon hole themselves.

Although the closer I look at it today the more I see furry as being a means for some people to more freely express interest in what they're truly passionate and care about. For example, I have two very clear cut sets of friends, furry and non-furry. Amongst furries I'm freely able to discuss and participate in the things that bring a smile to my face, like illustration and story telling. My non-furry friends consider those sorts of things stupid and a waste of time. Property values are far more important, and I shouldn't be wasting time with, you know, that trivial thing that I get a great sense of well being out of. It's pretty obvious who I'm wanting to spend more time with.

It gets to the point where there are two ways that I represent myself. As Peter, whose main interests are business and profits. And then as Foxen, who is freely able to express interest about things that I really care about.

I'm not saying that this sort of acceptance of celebrating what is important in your life is exclusive to furries, but it does seem to be a hell of a lot more prevalent.

Or maybe I'm over analysing things and most of these people really are all 'hurrrr Imma fox.'

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[info]raiden_kitsune
2009-04-28 03:00 pm UTC (link)
Mmm, that's part of what I was trying to get at, worded a bit more clearly.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]2_gryphon, 2009-04-28 06:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]foxen_alopex, 2009-04-29 03:17 am UTC (Expand)

[info]halioffirpine
2009-04-28 02:24 pm UTC (link)
I'd ask them, if they're hell-bent on showing who they really are, if they're truly interested in finding out who their parents really are.

And if they have a full-time job yet.

Pax,
Hali

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[info]coyotewolfen
2009-04-28 03:11 pm UTC (link)
Hey! There's an idea. I doubt that teen boys and girls would be so quick to out themselves to the parents if they came back and said "before you tell us you're sleeping with you're having threesomes with your brother and the family dog, we'd like you to know who we are, too." >:)

If you were born of your parents, you know they had sex. If you have children, they know you had sex. Thta never seems to come up while the mashed potatoes and ham are being passed around at the family reunion.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]lunabird, 2009-04-29 04:13 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]coyotewolfen, 2009-04-29 12:05 pm UTC (Expand)

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